xtzrick wrote:

phil w wrote:I think talking to him, that although the gears are a price, it is the associated cost that then follows. He explained that by the time the gearbox whine/ noise is really noted it pretty much to late, and that the engine should come apart at maybe 25 to 30 k miles to have a look and rectify any gear pitting that happens. If left the damage to elsewhere is where extra cost gets incurred. He did state mind that included piston and top end, working on the fact that if it was apart, it may as well be done properly

Taking home a good as new engine would explain the cost.

Bonding with the bike seems your biggest obsticle Phil.

Rick

Of course if he does it all as GeoffD says then it is obviously money well spent.. as to me it would be a new engine. Dave Lambeth sounded a very nice bloke, and of course has had many years experiance of what will be best for reliability, if a bike he is using is off to far flung corners of some African desert. Mine obviously, is not at that point in its life, and Im sure has many thousand happy miles to go before anything untoward happens. Im also sure it doesnt affect every XT or XTZ and is pretty much the main failure of these engines.... in as much the same way Honda suffer with output shaft wear on Africa Twins and Transalps.. also an engine strip.
Other thing Mr Lambeth did say... oversize headers are a total waste of time unless on a highly tuned engine and motad are really the only ones he would bother to use ???
The bonding thing is definately the stumbling block with me Rick, and when these associated niggles get spoken about it seems to play with my mind and put into my head I should get rid..... thats my problem I guess
Today I went out on the Ten and thouraghly enjoyed it ... of course minus the twisted bars and buzzing front end... ear plugs do help. But it definately is a bike I enjoy one day and feel frustrated the next for no apparent reason ??

Having studied and searching a lot! about the 5th gear failure, on XT motors (both aircooled 600cc and watercooled 660cc) I 've concluded to that...

Shit happens all the time...when you are around 'em.....(explain)...

There are riders who UPshift gears with clutch-lever engaging but with "Full throttle On" (on high RevsPerMin) and they love that "kick" the engine gives.....struggling to change the interval gears

There are also riders who UPshift gears without clutch at all! (on Off-throtle position of course) cause they 've discovered the sweet "synchronization) spot, for each gear through the RPM range.....(it really seems effrortless)

There are also riders who DOWNshift gears just by taking their hand from the throttle-grip (no revving) but also Without clutch at all...clutchless...just like a lunatic motogp pilot...cause it feels...fastA...mothAfuckA...

I can assure you, both by my research among some friends and also by my engineer experiment through his lifetime, that those 3 specific cases of "Abnormal Gearing" will certainly drive to a gearbox failure. Eventually.-

Same thing occurs in the supersport line of Yamaha engines, YZF-R1. A lot of broken 2nd gear and the myth was already built. "YamahaS suffer from bad gearbox", the wise men concluded...

I know tenths of people all those 20+ years of motorcycling who had Never faced such a problem, cause they were engaging gears...simply...as it meant to be the appropriate procedure.....(guess dont need to explain it)

I dont harsh on anyone, that "mistreates" his bike, but regarding we are talking for an almost 20 years bike (XTZ660) most possible is that the current owner of a bike...is not the only and One...in her long life.....maybe the previous, or the previous before, was so kinky and wanted to torch machines...maybe...noone knows...what the past of each bike is contained of and in what manner all these KiloMetres had been done to her body...

A close friend of mine has rebuilded his 43F (and also put an E-Starter as a plus, only changing the left side of the bottom case, not the whole engine) and checked thoroughly the gearbox and found no sign of worn gears-sprockets at all (I did saw it with my own eyes). He also owns a 92 XTZ660 with plenty of traveling KMs on her (most of them with a passenger and luggage) and the gearbox runs flawlessly till today. (he has also the new XT660Z F.I ...a true Yamaha maniac...)

I had also rebuilded my 89 2KF with ~120.000 KMs (it didnt broke, just refreshing) and my gearbox was also "untouched"...OK...with expected ware for the KMs, but without the need of replacing anything, about the gearbox. Just the classic...light rectified head (1mm) 96mm JE piston with new rings, a camshaft chain, new valve and clutch springs, and a bit of polishing (not exactly porting) around valve seats, intake ports, etc, a full refreshment lets say. For as long as I managed to drive it, everything was fine and it kept gearing as sweet as it gets...

So, do not listen to everyone's claims "about this...about that...blah-blah-blah". The Engines-Motors are the best mirror of our Ego...our personality. Whatever you feed 'em, the similar you collect of them. So, only love...and oil...are your only 2 concerns about their longevity.

Long live the XT king

1600 wrote: ...
So, do not listen to everyone's claims "about this...about that...blah-blah-blah". The Engines-Motors are the best mirror of our Ego...our personality. Whatever you feed 'em, the similar you collect of them. So, only love...and oil...are your only 2 concerns about their longevity.

Long live the XT king

Good post, 1600!
Mine has ~158.000 km and the gearbox is running smoothly, without sounds and changes the gears like a new bike.

A lot of info on the .net suggests keeping the revs up, not riding below 4000rpm in 5th or you hammer the gear.

Last night I knicked a photo from mzriders.com & noticed the author of the post mentioned standard ignition timing is the cause of chainlash (engine running unevenly).

If XT600s have a steep advance "curve" like the 660


I think there's a good arguement for an adjustable ignition unit if you like riding at low revs (always dropping a gear or 2 to accelerate though )

Rick

I think that' it's already mentioned, but a simple, cheap, and quick way of avoiding possible troubles with the gearing, is a more "close-ratio" secondary drive. In simple words, adding couple of "tooths" in the back-wheel sprocket or reducing 1 tooth of the front-axle one. (1 tooth less from the front - equals 3 tooths plus on the back)

I know it's not something new, but it's always a fast and proved solution on Not hammering the transmission, if you wanna drive with 5th gear from 5000-6000 rpm to 2000...and back 'n' forth. For sure it streches the tranny lot less.

Of course you are gonna lose a few Km/h on top end and probably you are gonna rise a bit your fuel consumption...but hey...noone's perfect...

Just out of interest would cruising at 5000 rpm be ok for hours on end for this big single cylinder.. I think on mine it equates to 70 ish mph ??

phil w wrote:Just out of interest would cruising at 5000 rpm be ok for hours on end for this big single cylinder.. I think on mine it equates to 70 ish mph ??

I'm sure I read somewhere they were designed to go flat out all day for the Dakar.

70mph is no problem.

Rick

Cheers Rick... interesting noticed (elsewhere) you said you run on 16t front and 46 rear.... wondered why this gearing was chosen above my 15/45 setup ??

phil w wrote:Cheers Rick... interesting noticed (elsewhere) you said you run on 16t front and 46 rear.... wondered why this gearing was chosen above my 15/45 setup ??

I normally run 16/45 but my local supplier only had 46 tooth rears in.

I just prefer the lower revs, find it more relaxed when travelling a distance.

Rick

xtzrick wrote:

phil w wrote:Cheers Rick... interesting noticed (elsewhere) you said you run on 16t front and 46 rear.... wondered why this gearing was chosen above my 15/45 setup ??

I normally run 16/45 but my local supplier only had 46 tooth rears in.

I just prefer the lower revs, find it more relaxed when travelling a distance.

Rick

Ok nice one all this info is helping me out... what rev is the engine at 70 then with that i.e mine at 70 is pretty much bang on 5k so wondering if it dropped it down to 4500 ?? (which to me really sounds like its sweet spot when thruming along)