Missinglink wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 6:24 pm Well done fella, Sounds like your getting a real taste of desert riding, Is the sand really that fine. I'm told its like talc powder..

Sand is definitely finer than what you find at the beach but at the oued's or riverbeds, it's like talcum powder and it's called fesh fesh.

My impression from this and watching the Harry’s Garage vid are that the routes are too long considering the level of difficulty – a number of participants skipped either parts of the stages or entire stages. I wonder how many actually completed 100% of all of the stages. I imagine a lot less than the 93 that Harry said made it to the end.

Expecting participants to continue in a sandstorm, when there are known to be gullies from previous heavy rain, resulting in a number of injuries seems somewhat irresponsible.

I am interested in Sandraiders, and if you want to be pushed then it’s OK, but it seemed too much of an ordeal. I would rather find a company that ships bikes to southern Morocco, fly out there and make my own 2-3 week trip.

I don’t see how Harry managed to spend 15k on his bike. Suspension overhaul, engine rebuild, carb rebuild, some new bearings, the best tyres. I guess the electric start conversion could have been a grand or more, but I can’t see it all coming to more than 5k. If anyone knows where all that money went, please let me know.

Regarding Harry’s petrol tank, does anyone know what it was? It looked like a standard 1VJ tank, but it started to leak, so maybe it had been cut down and welded to fit? Or jusst different brackets welded on? I'd have modified an Acerbis tank from an XT and kept the original seat position, if that's at all possible, or maybe just used an XT, sticking with the kickstart.

Got to say i kind of agree... I watched one of Harry's earlier Sandraiders video and it kind of inspired me to have a go.... ( coming back to bikes after a break )

I bought and built the bike, but I ran out of time to get myself and the bike ready so missed this years event.

I was still keen to see Harry's vid's to see what i had missed out on, But if I'm honest kind of felt I'd maybe dodged a bullet as it looked a bit arduous in some places and not the experience i thought it would be in the earlier reviews..

Now maybe that's because i'm nowhere ready for that level of riding, But I'd still be mad as hell if after buying and restoring the bike and cost of the trip i only manged a couple of days, or gained a bad injury...

I'm still keen on it but TBH it's the only thing that's stopping me paying my deposit for next year... Your idea of a couple of weeks of gadding about Morocco sound a much better idea....

Scumfrog wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:05 pm My impression from this and watching the Harry’s Garage vid are that the routes are too long considering the level of difficulty – a number of participants skipped either parts of the stages or entire stages. I wonder how many actually completed 100% of all of the stages. I imagine a lot less than the 93 that Harry said made it to the end.

Expecting participants to continue in a sandstorm, when there are known to be gullies from previous heavy rain, resulting in a number of injuries seems somewhat irresponsible.

I am interested in Sandraiders, and if you want to be pushed then it’s OK, but it seemed too much of an ordeal. I would rather find a company that ships bikes to southern Morocco, fly out there and make my own 2-3 week trip.

I don’t see how Harry managed to spend 15k on his bike. Suspension overhaul, engine rebuild, carb rebuild, some new bearings, the best tyres. I guess the electric start conversion could have been a grand or more, but I can’t see it all coming to more than 5k. If anyone knows where all that money went, please let me know.

Regarding Harry’s petrol tank, does anyone know what it was? It looked like a standard 1VJ tank, but it started to leak, so maybe it had been cut down and welded to fit? Or jusst different brackets welded on? I'd have modified an Acerbis tank from an XT and kept the original seat position, if that's at all possible, or maybe just used an XT, sticking with the kickstart.

Scumfrog and Missing Link I did the event with James but I was unfortunate that on the trip my new rear Wilbers shock reservoir tube broke its two metal straps and fell down on the chain which chewed through it and let go as I hit a yump, and the pogo effect of no damping just a spring launched me off the bike and down the side of a ravine. Luckily a very quick french guy jumped off his bike and caught my foot. I had wedged my elbows in the bank so broke most of the fall. I ended up in hospital with a suspected fractured back but was fine and back on the bike again 2 days later with a borrowed rear shock for the desert stage which had the sandstorm. I bought some Desert goggles which had high definition lenses and kept the sand out but it was tough going and unfortunately the shock was on its last legs when they put it on so after 180k I transferred to the pilot route and bumped into James later at a bar after he'd blown his clutch.

I stupidly did the last stage and the shock finally packed in and I came off fracturing ribs and dislocating my shoulder which I still suffer with 6 weeks later but at 57 that's what happens

Would I do it again - answer probably yes especially in 2025 when they had down through Mauritania - What would I do differently -

1) Buy another bike - Sad thing to say on this forum as the bikes are great at long distance mile munching off road but i'm 5'8' with 30" inside leg and the 3AJ with all new suspension sits at 38" - I was expecting long stages of flat desert where the 3AJ excels without breaking sweat (ask James) and you don't really need to get off for that. The Tenere with the right 140 tyres (Michelin) just loved the sand and the power from my bike was awesome - crossing the Desert at 80mph with Richard Moore headers and Arrow can it sounded beautiful. However, on technical stages which there was a lot of! the weight and height did for me and it was very hard going in 42 degrees. If I did it again I would probably use a Suzuki DRZ 400 at 119 kilos it's a light maneuverable bike. I do far more technical stuff in Llanidloes but the lightness, quickness of steering take 60% of the energy compared to the 3AJ. The Tenere's in any form are adventure bikes and what you need here are pure Enduro bikes, albeit 2 guys bought BMW GS's. On the flat sections the smaller Enduro bikes got eaten.

2) Get Fitter - I was relatively fit having entered a few gravel cycle races but I was still too heavy and probably should have lost a couple of stone more. Having seen Harry a few years ago at one of the London car shows I was amazed at how skinny he had got for this event which he said was through relentless Peleton sessions. The event Harry admitted was a lot harder than last year both in the terrain with the heavy rains they had had and the damage this did (we were having to negotiate through huge boulders that had been pushed off the mountains into the now dry river beds). The heat however was one of the main factors I drank 10 litres of water on one day. Last year the heat was 28 degrees this year it got to 46 degrees on one day.

3) Get Bike Fitter - I have ridden motocross and trials events since I was 8 but wasn't ready for the marathon stages of this event. One of my mates came over from Kenya where he rides in the bush daily and is one fit lad at 47 he said it is the toughest event he has ever ever done. Again his bike was a lot lighter than mine and lower but he hasn't jumped back to enter again next year - he's picking the Hellas Rally instead.

4) Kit - The one thing I did right was buy the right gear - I didn't listen to Harry and I bought proper Enduro race boots with ankle and shin support not the Forma boots which Harry shredded. =I also went for full knee braces which were great and didn't feel as bad to ride and walk in as I thought. I used Mobius and highly recommend them no knee problems with dodgy knees. I also bought a Bell helmet and used goggles my pal Tim bought the Klim helmet with visor and got very hot and was always misting up. The only thing i regret not buying was shoulder braces as that would have saved my shoulder and a Kidney belt would have been a bonus.

Harry was right 93 did make it and the fall outs were mostly British but what we forget is that the Spanish and French who make up the highest contingent have thousands of kilometres of hard riding on their doorstep. The reason I was told that the event this year was harder than last was that the French had been complaining that it was too easy and not the taste of the Dakar it should have been so Pep changed it but as the Medics were so busy every day I think the extremity will be rolled back a little. There was a rest day but they still organised a 250km stage which the French did.

I also found the cost of Harrys bike quite astonishing but that is what he says it honestly cost him and I don't doubt him. I reckon he spent £6-£8k on the engine alone which seems ludicrous having had a Honda XL600LM engine rebuilt recently for £1,300. However David Lambeth is expensive and I did wonder if it was a case of 'seen you coming sir' and I hope he wasn't fleeced as he's actually a nice chap. He came and checked on me when I got back from the hospital. On my 3AJ I had new forks, complete repaint, new clutch, wilbers rear shock. new discs pads etc all round, new rear wheel same as on Harrys, Best tyres etc and I only got through £2,500 which included my mate rebuilding the bike as I was working. Harrys tank was off a 1VJ but he didn't fit it it was fitted years back in the states and he just used that but said he might go plastic next year. The one thing I amazed about given his comments last year is not going for wide footpegs I bought a set of Stainless wide pegs for a TW200 fro £25 off Amazon and they fit relatively easy and were very comfortable.

The event does give you a glimpse into what the Dakar events were like back in the day which according to Jordi Aracons 27 time stage winner were a lot more technical than they are today but professes that today takes a different type of riding and stamina as well. I think we rode about 5 actual Dakar stages and I found it wise to be following others so you can see the dips in the long desert plains or watching their line as some riders have done this over the last 8 years. What capped it for me was the welcoming attitude of everyone wanting to help where they can and it turned into a great team event. The support as well was outstanding we had over 8 medics two of which were surgeons and about 8 mechanics. James blew his clutch on the penultimate day with only 45kms left on the last day. Most would say forget it and loaded the bike up but they worked through the night so he had a new clutch fitted for the last day!! oh and they carry a thousand cans of cold beer in the Dakar lorries.

James turned out to be the start of the event and hats off for him for fully completing this arduous event very evening he jumped in the pool fully clothed to rapturous applause and even when Sandraiders finished he hired a bike to do another tour round Morocco - Mad yes he's definitely that

That was a post and a half. And I have many questions.

The first of which is,
Who were these over-achieving French people, how old were they, and what bikes were they riding?

Most were on a mixture of DRZ 400'S and Honda XR650's.

One guy at the front was about 60 and about 120 kilos so obviously a good rider and anotheR French chap was 70 on a DRZ400 . The majority of these guys have been doing the Sandriaders since it started.

Mike

DakarXT600 wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 12:12 pm
Most were on a mixture of DRZ 400'S and Honda XR650's.

I suppose the 2000's bikes make the going a fair bit easier...

and that the first sentence on the Sandraiders website no longer applies:

SandRaiders is designed for classic and neoclassic motorbikes, the legendary bikes that took part in the great African rally raids of the 80’s.

So, I'd choose a KTM 450 excf. It might be a bit too highly strung though.

The winning bikes in the 80's would have been works bikes with WP or Ohlins all round, and most entrants would have been in their 20's, fit, professional riders. And it was always run in January, so a lot cooler. Most didn't make it to the finish line most years.
The Dakar was never a holiday but to expect 60-somethings to do the same thing on 40 year old consumer level bikes, in that heat, I'd have expected it to be a lot less demanding.

Thanks Mike for the great write up.
Did you hire the Tripy from SR or did you take your own?
I’ve got a Garmin Zumo and I’m trying to work out if it will be up to the job after downloading the route each day.

Chris

What a fascinating read this thread has been, thank you all for posting.
I'm enrolled to participate in Sand Raiders 2024, currently it will be on a TTR600, but im also building a bmw hpn replica which I may use..... Although it does sound like the ttr should be what I take.
Are any of you guys doing next year's event? Would great to meet up perhaps ride as a group?
Please feel free to contact me.

All the best

Garry

Rsvgaz wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:28 pm What a fascinating read this thread has been, thank you all for posting.
I'm enrolled to participate in Sand Raiders 2024, currently it will be on a TTR600, but im also building a bmw hpn replica which I may use..... Although it does sound like the ttr should be what I take.
Are any of you guys doing next year's event? Would great to meet up perhaps ride as a group?
Please feel free to contact me.

All the best

Garry

Most of the Brits have already signed up for 2024 Garry. I could add you to our WhatsApp group if you wish?